ScreenFish

where faith and film are intertwined

women

Deconstructing Karen – A woke up call

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“It’s white women’s niceness that is killing us all.”

A group of women sit around a dining room table to break bread and talk. But it won’t be an easy or pleasant conversation. That is because it will strive to be an honest conversation about race in America. Deconstructing Karen, a documentary by director Patty Ivins Sprecht, watches as the conversation unfolds with a group of white women as their understandings of themselves is challenged.

The women are there as part of a Race2Dinner event. It is facilitated by Race2Dinner co-founders Saira Rao and Regina Jackson. Rao is Indian-American who describes herself at one point as a former white feminist. Jackson is African-American who has been involved in civil rights issues for decades. Rao and Jackson lead the women in a conversation that is at times provocative, confrontational, and blunt.

The target audience for dinners such as this are white women who describe themselves as liberal or progressive. The underlying thesis is that racism is inherent in our society. (Racism is defined in the film as “the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another.”) Because of that, all white people carry racism within them. Even Rao raises her hand when they ask who at the table is racist. The point of the dinner is to help those who come (and the rest of us as we watch) to begin to see the way racism and white supremacy have defined who they are. The extension of the thesis is that even those who think of themselves as woke may still be supporting the inherent white supremacy of our culture.

More than once the facilitators say that change is not possible until there is acknowledgement. And that acknowledgement is what the film is seeking. (Even that is hard to accomplish in the brief 73 minutes of the film.) This is not a film that offers a cure for the racism of society, or even a great epiphany of self-awareness. At best this offers a starting point for viewers to rethink what racism is and to what extent we participate in racism, even if we think otherwise.

Having taken part in anti-racism events, I know that these ideas can be difficult to comprehend intellectually, but even harder emotionally. The film gives us a good start at an intellectual understanding of how racism and white supremacy infect us. The real mission has to be for us to not only intellectually acknowledge our racism, but to emotionally incorporate that into our self-awareness and daily lives.

Deconstructing Karen is available on VOD.

Friday at AFI Fest 2021

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“We are responsible for the community we build and the stories we tell.” This is the tagline for AFI Fest 2021. That phrase appears on various promotional materials. It reflects the idea that films are more than just entertainment; they help to shape the way people see the world. That understanding is very appropriate for the features I watched on Friday.

In Orit Fouks Rotem’s Cinema Sabaya, a group of Jewish and Arab women take part in a class to learn how to make videos. The women vary in age and background. Week after week, as they share their assignments, they begin to learn of each other’s lives and dreams. At times the differences seem stark, yet there are also many ways that they discover common fears and concerns. Their time together sometimes crosses lines of intimacy before they know it. In some ways they all have dreams fulfilled through this class. This is an exploration of both community and stories.

This was a scripted film (with a very documentary feel) that gave the actors a great deal of freedom as they delivered their lines. It was based on a number of real women’s stories. One of the interesting bits, for me, is that the film director teacher never really shared her own life the way these women did. She really is a bit separated from the group as a whole. Perhaps a sign that sometimes when filmmakers stand a bit outside looking at others, there is a wariness.

Ali & Ava from Clio Barnard is the story of a South Asian man and an Irish woman who are both dealing with loss and loneliness. Ali’s marriage is breaking up following his wife’s loss of a pregnancy. He is keeping their separation a secret from his close-knit family. Ava has been widowed about a year, but there were issues in the marriage before her husband died. When the two meet, a connection develops and grows over a lunar month. Ava’s adult son is none too happy to have any man in Mom’s life, let alone a man of color. As the two people begin to share their lives and secrets, they have to struggle with the question of if they are ready to find new happiness.

This film feels very much like a Ken Loach film—in large part because of the Yorkshire setting and working-class characters. (I hope if the director reads this, she takes that as the compliment I intend.) We get the feeling of real people as they struggle with the real trials of life.

Today’s shorts included:

Enviar y Recbir (Shipping and Receiving) from director Cosmo Collins Salovaara. A warehouse worker is told to do what he wants with a damaged dress. He tries to give it to his daughter who is uninterested. A neighbor doesn’t think it’s appropriate for his daughter. Yet the man won’t let it go to waste. (9 minutes)

New Abnormal from director Sorayos Prapapan. A look at what life has become during the COVID-19 pandemic, with temperature checks, masks sold out at a drugstore, washing hands, and all the other things that are so common now. It’s done with a touch of humor. (14 minutes)

Mon Amie qui Brille dans le Nuit (My Friend Who Shines in the Night) is an animated film from Grégoire de Bernouis, Jawed Boudaoud, Simon Cadilhac, and Hélène Ledevin. A ghost on its way to whatever the hereafter might be is struck by lightening and falls to earth with no memory. A man helps it find its way back to where it needs to be. (9 minutes)

Your Street from director Güzin Kar. A look at a short road in an industrial area in Germany that has been named after a four year old victim of a Neo-Nazi attack. Is using such a road as a memorial a good way to be reminded of the past? (8 minutes)

Sandstorm from Seemab Gul. Zora, a Pakistani schoolgirl, sends a dance video to a virtual boyfriend, who blackmails her with it. It is a struggle as Zora faces the patriarchal society she lives in. (20 minutes)

Hurt by Paradise – Life in the Tone of Melancholy

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Life is often about chasing after dreams. But is the chase itself enough to make for a complete life? In Greta Bellamacina’s Hurt by Paradise, we watch two women who are chasing after dreams that are probably beyond their grasps. Should we see this as a celebration or with pity—or both?

Celeste Blackwood (played by director Bellamacina) is a single mother of a toddler. She is striving to find acceptance as a poet. She writes long, maudlin verses about a father she doesn’t know. She is working her way through all the Blackwoods in the phone book trying to connect with that missing part of her life. She describes him as not having left them, but taking a break. Publishers vary in their treatment of her and her poetry. One tells her poetry just doesn’t sell, she should try fiction. Another is more truthful and blunt: her poetry just isn’t good.

Celeste’s neighbor and best friend Stella Mansell (Sadie Brown, who co-wrote with Bellamacina) sees herself as a actress, although her acting ability is of about the same caliber as Celeste’s poetry. She has been in a one-year texting relationship with a man she has never met, but has fallen in love with. When Stella heads off to the seaside to meet her beloved, Celeste follows to rescue her from what seems a sure disaster. In the process the women discover a common bond that shows them what they have been searching for is not a cure for their troubles.

The invitation I received from a publicist about this film called it “the British Francis Ha”. It certainly has that feel as we watch these women trying to define themselves by their own self-understanding rather than by the way the world sees them. It also is a similar blend of their search for happiness, and the melancholy of their reality. Although for me, the melancholy is dominant.

I think the film’s value is found in the questions we might ask ourselves about our reactions to the women. There is a certain pain in knowing they will not achieve their life goals—especially since they both seem oblivious to that fact. But could it be enough that they find happiness in their striving, even if it seems doomed to failure? Does success have to be defined by meeting society’s expectations? How we feel about the film could be a reflection on our own attitudes about what makes a fulfilling life.

Hurt by Paradise is available on VOD.

Photos courtesy of Moviehouse Entertainment.

In Her Own Voice: 1on1 with Miranda Bailey (CherryPicks)

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Breaking into the ‘boys club’ is never easy.

Even as things begin to improve due to recent movements surrounding women in the Hollywood, the power still remains predominantly in the hands of the men in the industry. Interestingly, while many of these conversations have surrounded gender equity in filmmaking and production, what about the world of film criticism? 

Enter The Cherry Picks.

Developed by Miranda Bailey, TheCherryPicks.com seeks to create space for female-identifying and non-binary critics to find their voice. By highlighting reviews and creating original stories, Cherry Picks has started to bring a little more balance into the primarily male-dominated world of film criticism. Asked how the idea came about, Bailey recalls that the development of the site stemmed from the realization that, even though it seemed obvious, no one else was providing a platform for alternative critical expressions.

“The question is ‘why didn’t anybody else think of this?’,” she laughs. “It came about because I was looking for something like this. I had produced a movie [called] I Do Until I Don’t, which was Lake Bell’s second feature film. It was about women and geared towards women. It was friendly towards love. It didn’t make any grandiose political statements or anything like that and a lot of the male reviewers when they were reviewing it were saying things about how disappointed they were with Lake. It was like she was their daughter or something and it was just like really weird. Some of the female reviewers talked about it, and they didn’t necessarily score it any better, but they talked about it differently. They actually talked about the film part. And a lot of my friends who aren’t in the industry who are women really liked it… So, I was like, ‘Oh, well let me find out what all women think and what’s the women’s score of that for critics’.”

“And then I couldn’t find it. I found some organizations that had female critics that belong to it, but you’d have to like go and read each one. But those weren’t necessarily Rotten Tomatoes certified critics and you couldn’t figure out a score… When I was looking a little deeper, I realized that, at that time which was about three years ago, like 78% of the critics were men. I think they’ve gotten it to like 60 something now… How are we ever going to do what we say we want to do in Hollywood, which is have more women behind the camera and have more female stories, if consumers are hearing what is worth their money from mostly men? So [Cherry Picks] was kind of a way to start something that would help female critics get more noticed, get more jobs, get more hired. But it was also a way for me to affect the consumer market to prove that there actually is an audience for film by and about women. We collect the scores of all of the critics that on every movie, [including those that are] non-binary or identify as female. We do Ford v Ferrari, also. We collate from that as well. So, it’s not only about women movies, but it’s just about what women think these movies that are out there. So, you know, it’s a ‘for everyone, by women’ kind of thing.”

Even though she believes that its essential for stronger diversity in the circles of film criticism, Bailey also explains that the ‘female voice’ is never the same across the board. With the development of Cherry Picks, Bailey’s vision is simply to provide an alternative opinion in a male-dominated industry.

“I think everyone’s an individual,” she explains, “so I don’t think [that] all men think one way. All women, all Republicans, all Democrats, all blacks or whites or whatever. I don’t think that way, but think about it like magazines, right? Like I don’t really read GQ magazine. I’m not the demo for that. I know most guys don’t read Marie Claire, right? So, it’s really just about interests and whatnot. I could read a GQ magazine, if I wanted to. A guy could read Marie Claire, if they wanted to do. I just wanted to present something that you could read, if you wanted to.”

From Instagram Live interviews to written reviews, Bailey is clearly excited about the variety of ways that Cherry Picks is bringing their voice to the public. Viewing themselves as a ‘film-friendly’ site, Bailey recognizes that even bad movies deserve a place in our hearts.

“Cherry Picks has a newsletter that comes out every Friday that kind of tells you what to watch right now,” she beams. “Obviously, we’re focused on movies that are playing at your home, but they’re new movies and it’s great. You can go to the movie pages, [and] see the scores [from] female critics, and how they’ve been curated. We have a ‘bowl of cherries’, which is like ‘run, don’t walk’. Two cherries, [means] that it’s worth the ticket. One cherry [means] catch it from your couch, but maybe not worth going to see. (Fortunately, all of us are on our couches now.) And then there’s the ‘pits’, which is pretty self-explanatory. For myself, as a filmmaker or a woman, I don’t know which one is talking here. Maybe it’s the combo, but I love ‘pitty’ movies. That’s kind of our motto. Everyone loves a ‘pitty’ movie now and then. So, it’s a very film-friendly site as opposed to something that [says] ‘Don’t see this. It’s garbage.’ I love some garbage. I mean, The Hot Chick is one of my favorite movies of all time… Our Instagram is doing Instagram Lives with a lot of actresses right now, and female filmmakers every day, every Tuesday and Thursday at one o’clock. Instagram Live. It’s really fun and it’s fun to make that new content, I have to say.”

A veteran of the industry herself, Bailey continues to strive for gender equality in the workplace. While people continue to debate whether or not things have improved for women behind the scenes, she insists that there is still much work to be done.

“I’ve been hearing [stories about progress being made] for my entire 20-year career,” Bailey points out. “[I’ve heard] ‘There’s no audience for it’ and then there’s, ‘We need more of it’. [From] not necessarily any movement to Times Up and MeToo. I had started working on Cherry Picks before that had happened. So, it was just really coincidentally good timing that we were able to get this site up and launched and writing right at the time when people were talking about [the fact that] women should be listened to. So, I got very lucky with that. Movements [like] Time’s Up, MeToo, or other movements like Black Lives Matter are really important movements that make people pay attention to [those issues]. We can’t just say that we want equality. We have to go out of our way to make equality happen. I think that, since those movements have started and they really gained a lot of traction, that things have been changing for the better for women for sure. I think there’s obviously still problems, but you know, I do definitely notice a change in the work place…” 

With this in mind, Bailey feels that one manner in which the industry could demonstrate gender equity would be for the Oscars to separate the Best Director award into male and female categories, similar to what they do with the acting nods.

“Do we still have the problem that not a single female director was nominated for an Oscar this year when we had the best year ever of movies by women? Absolutely,” she continues. ”It was a problem. That has to do with money. Unless there’s a category specifically for women in the Oscars or Golden Globes for directing and there’s a reason why a distributor will put money behind a campaign specifically for a woman who is not an actress… It’s only going to happen if they can make money off of the ‘Oscar winner’. Right now, they don’t go out of their way to select movies that are directed by women. They go out of their way to select the movies that they think have a chance. Also, people vote for their friends. This is in SAG Awards, PGA and whatever. It’s always the idea [there’s] a ‘boys club’ and it’s true. But more and more women are breaking into that boy’s club. The more we get into the boy’s club, the more it will [improve]. Awards campaigns are very expensive and the only reason that you do it is to make more money. So, until there’s a financial interest for distributors to literally invest in a campaign for female directors, I don’t see it taking great strides.” 

Although she recognizes that dividing the Best Director category has its complexities, she also believes that doing so would create more opportunities for notoriety and financial gain for everyone involved.

“Do I want to be called a female producer or a female director? No, I want to be thought of as a director and a producer,” Bailey contends. “It doesn’t matter what my sex is. However, the only way I can see us really jumping in and getting money behind us for being a director is if there’s a category for it, personally. Now, I know that a lot of people that disagree with that because they don’t want to be singled out, you know? There’re also sexual identity stuff and nonbinary people, people who don’t identify as either sex so, I do understand the complexities. It’s certainly not something I’m going to campaign for. It’s too controversial but I have a distribution business myself. I’m a partner at the Film Arcade so I know how it works. I have a production company and so I know how it works. And, at the end of the day, whether it’s doing a small campaign for a Spirit Award or doing a big campaign for the Oscars, it’s all about money and what you can put on your website or your video case, your film poster, which is ‘Winner Of…’. Not until this year did I come to the thought [that] there should be a female director category because Mary Heller, Lulu Wang… and all these other movies that were smaller movies that were brilliant should have been nominated for directing and they were not. But yet they would have been if we had a female director category. So, that’s where it gets a little tricky. I don’t think it will happen, but that’s just what I think.”
“The only reason that women and men [acting categories] are [separated is] because, back when they started it, getting Marilyn Monroe and getting these fancy, beautiful, iconic actresses that were movie stars to show up was how they got people to watch the show. No one [cared] about the costume designers or whatever before. But now, it’s become an art form that’s much more about filmmaking than movie stars.” 
However, what’s far more important than awards campaigns is the issue of equal pay within the industry. Even though she sees that progress has been made as a result of recent social movements, Bailey also recognizes that there continues to be tremendous imbalance behind the scenes.

“People are talking about it but, to be honest, the deal I was just making with two other men, I, once again, was asked to not take a fee,” she remembers. “So, it’s not changing for me as a producer. I did have to demand that I get paid what everyone gets paid. My friend also is a producer on a big movie right now that got shut down. She also had an issue where they were paying her $25,000 less than the two men who are doing less work. I mean, it is a big problem still and it is still happening. It is really annoying and upsetting when you go through it. And I’m done. My whole life has taken less than men on every single movie I’ve ever made or been asked to and I’ve done it. Me and my colleague Amanda have to split a fee, one fee for the two of us, where the other guys will get their own. It’s just shocking and I’ve had to fight just for that. So, now I have a resume that’s big enough that I have enough confidence in myself to be able to say that I’m not going to do this movie or this TV show, you know? I just had to take a hard line. I started the hard line about four years ago with Swiss Army Man. I did get paid less on that movie than the other producer… And my office did all the work. Amanda got paid less as well. I had to fight for us to get paid at all on that. That was obviously before MeToo or Time’s Up. But now, I’m not accepting anything less than equal. If I’m doing the equal work, I’m just not. If I’m not doing equal work, I get it. I don’t want to pay a man the same as me if I’m doing more work. That’s pretty much always happening. I love men… There are men [that] I admire. Several men have mentored me more than women have in this business. My agents and managers, they were the first to believe in me and I really appreciate them.”

Looking forward, while she may not have any specific path in mind, Bailey very much hopes to see awareness of the issues of disparity continue to build so that more people can receive opportunities to succeed.

“I’m not one for mandates, myself,” begins Bailey. “It’d be great to have more PSAs about it frankly and bring more awareness into it because I don’t think people understand. I know my son who’s 12 does not understand. He thinks that the ‘pink tax’ is a hoax. He thinks that there’s no such thing as ‘fair pay’ just because that’s not a real thing. It is! I didn’t experience this, but my mother did. Women weren’t allowed to get their own credit card or buy their own house without a man co-signing for them. Women weren’t allowed to get jobs. One of the things with Rotten Tomatoes that was probably why it was hard for them to have a more diverse selection of critics, [is] because their standards at the time… were things like you had to work at the New York Times for the last ten years. Those jobs 10 years ago were not given to women or people of color. So, when your restrictions are set with the resume you need to have, it’s a lot harder for women or people of color because we weren’t able to get those jobs. (I’m certainly not comparing what women have gone through with people of color. I think that people of color have had a much harder time than white women and women of color have had really hard times getting jobs as well.) I think we just have to be more open to taking people who aren’t as experienced, believing in people who need a chance, who haven’t had the ability to make twenty movies before now. Maybe they’ve done one. Maybe they’d done a short. I think that people with money, which isn’t necessarily me or indie films, but studios, television series and whatnot, need to be able to be willing to bring on female directors. “

When she considers which current female voices in the industry she’s most excited about, Bailey believes that there are several high-quality filmmakers that are worth keeping an eye on.

“I think Lulu Wang and Alma Har’el’s work are very exciting to me right now in terms of female directors and ones to watch,” she says enthusiastically. “Where will they be in five years? I hope that they’ll be huge, personally. You know how Wes Anderson has or the Coen Brothers or Baumbach have a [specific] look? I think there’s this girl named Suzi Yoonessi that’s [directed] a couple of films and she’s had very little money to work with… And I’m not saying not the greatest films in the world, but she definitely has a really interesting style, I think. I’m curious to see if that style gets embraced. It’s definitely kind of girly pop-y style, which I haven’t seen before. So, those are a couple of filmmakers that I think are really interesting right now”.

To visit Cherry Picks, click here.

For complete audio of our conversation with Miranda Bailey, click here.

Portrait of a Lady on Fire: Doomed Love

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I try not to mansplain things. But being a male reviewing Portrait of a Lady on Fire makes me feel as if I’m doing so. That is not to say that the film needs mansplaining. Writer director Céline Sciamma has crafted a wonderful story of women seeking love and fulfilment in a world that treats them as beings of lesser value. Although the film is set in the 18th century, the emotive underpinnings of the story are immortal (as is seen in the way Greek mythology is brought in as well).

Marianne (Noémie Merlant) has been commissioned to paint a wedding portrait of Héloïse (Adèle Haenel). Héloïse’s mother (Valeria Golino) has arranged a favorable marriage of her daughter to a man in her native Milan. Originally it was to be Héloïse’s sister, but after her death (possibly suicide to avoid marriage) Héloïse is brought home from the convent. She, too, is uninterested in this marriage, and has refused to sit for a portrait. So Marianne has been called to be a companion, and surreptitiously paint her.

The two women spend their days together, slowly establishing a bond. After confessing to Héloïse, Marianne destroys the painting, but Héloïse agrees to sit for another. While her mother is away for a week, the two women continue to get to understand each other and their relationship develops into romantic and sexual love. But still, Héloïse’s marriage looms as a given that darkens the possibilities of their happiness. As the romance blossoms, the love the two women share is clearly not acceptable to the world around them. Their love will not be allowed to interfere with the arrangements that have been made for the marriage. But that love is the truest they will ever have.

This is a film with very few scenes that include men. It focuses on the relationship between the women, not only Marianne, Héloïse, and her mother, but also the family’s servant Sophie (Luàna Bajrami). But even though there are no men present, the weight of paternalistic culture bears down on them all in oppressive ways. Each has her own way of being oppressed. For Héloïse it is obviously being forced into marriage. She has had no voice in the matter. When speaking about the advantages of life in a convent, she includes “Equality is a pleasant feeling.” Marianne has a certain freedom because since she will take over her father’s painting business, she is not required to marry. But even then, we learn later, she must submit her paintings under her father’s name to get them accepted. For Sophie, an unwanted pregnancy must be dealt with in unpleasant ways.

The film makes use of the Greek story of Orpheus and Eurydice, a story of lovers separated by death. Orpheus convinces the gods to allow Eurydice to return from Hades, but he fails to comply with the conditions just before they reach the outer world, and he loses his love forever. Héloïse, Marianne, and Sophie discuss this story and offer reasons why Orpheus may have done what he did. Through it all the sense of doomed love is a constant presence.

This is a film of both the big and the small. There are sweeping vistas and strong emotions, but it is the little things that often carry the most weight. In the beginning, there is a sense of great isolation, especially for Marianne when she is dropped off on the island where Héloïse lives with her mother. That isolation is chipped away slowly. There are also little bits of conversation that we discover were of great importance only later in the film. (E.g., a discussion of organ music in the convent compared to the sound of an orchestra will come to mind in the final scene.) It is the kind of film that has viewers thinking back and connecting ideas.

It is through this attention to small things that the film manages to speak volumes about women’s struggles in the world without really speaking about that directly. Instead we are engulfed in these lives that are prevented from fulfilment because the world will not allow such things for women. The world today may have improved in these respects, but is by no means free of such issues.

Photos courtesy of Neon.

3.22 Celebrating WONDER WOMAN

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This week, Steve welcomes actor Amanda Jane Smith and pastor Judith McCartney to enter into the battle with Patty Jenkins’ Wonder Woman.  While the film has scored with both critics and fans, there seems to be something much more significant about this particular moment.  Is it true that Diana’s story provides a proper role model for young women?  Does the strength of her character really create something unique or is there a veiled sexism at the hands of the male gaze?  In a lively discussion, they dialogue about equality, feminine identity and the nature of evil.

Want to continue to conversation at home?  Click the link below to download ‘Fishing for More’ — some small group questions for you to bring to those in your area.

3.22 Wonder Woman

A special thanks to Amanda and Judith for joining us on the show!

Going Colossal: An Interview with Anne Hathaway and Jason Sudeikis

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Colossal co-stars Anne Hathaway, Jason Sudeikis and director Nacho Vigalondo

In her latest film, Colossal, Hathaway manages to channel all of her experience into her portrayal of Gloria, an alcoholic with a deep desire for belonging.  During the film’s world premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival in September of last year, we had the opportunity to sit down with Hathaway and co-star Jason Sudeikis as they shared about the challenges to bring such complicated characters to life.  Having portrayed numerous emotionally-broken characters in her career (including her Oscar-winning role in Les Miserables), Hathaway says she is drawn to these characters because she can relate to them.

“I love them.  I have a lot of addicts in my life that I feel a great tender affection for. I think we’re living in a time of such exciting consciousness in terms of compassion levels.  Obviously, worldwide but within individuals, it’s been so inspiring and I love when stories present the opportunities to present groups that have been stigmatized, groups that have been judged, groups that have been looked at with very hard hearts, binary thinking, value-based judgment and I love going inside them and showing the human side of them because I always look at it and say ‘That’s me in there’ on some level… I want everyone to be treated with love”

“I know I began my career as a Disney princess but that wasn’t what my life was.  So, I know this character pretty well.”

In Colossal, Gloria (Hathaway) lives her life the only way she knows how… for herself.  Ruined by alcohol and partying, she finds herself out on the street after her boyfriend (Dan Stevens) tires of her behavior and asks her to move out of his apartment.  With nowhere else to go, she returns to her childhood home and reconnects with Oscar (Jason Sudekis), her childhood friend.  Meanwhile, seemingly unrelated events from across the globe involve a gigantic monster rampaging through Seoul, destroying everything in its path.  In the light of this global event, Gloria attempts to build a fresh start and soon discovers that she has a surprising connection with the beast itself.

Without question, Colossal is truly one of the most unique projects in recent years, spinning a story that has shades of warmth, fear, comedy, and even an homage to kaiju movies.  When asked what drew him to this film, Sudeikis argues that it was the script that compelled him to leave his young family to take on the role.

“It’s gotta be a story worth leaving the house for,” he states, matter of factly.  “[It needs to be] worth leaving this home that we’ve made for ourselves and this was one of those.  Six weeks in Vancouver?  I would’ve spent twelve weeks on Mars to because I think the story’s worth telling.”

Interestingly, instead of opting for the more traditional Japanese location of films such as Godzilla and Gamera, Colossal focuses its attention on Seoul, Korea.  Given that the film grapples with a battle for Gloria’s soul, Hathaway explains that she appreciated the connection between location and heart.

Says Hathaway, “It was just one of those happy things.  I loved saying those lines… ‘Seoul is behind that fence.  Giant monsters attacking Seoul… I loved the way that Nacho filmed the street scenes of people.  I got really moved seeing the depiction of joy in the streets.  So often the things that we’ve seen are of terror in the movies and in real life.  To see that was good for my heart.”

When asked whether or not she believes that the film industry contains a sense of toxic masculinity, Hathaway warns us to refrain from lumping all forms of masculine culture in the same box.

“I think it’s important to say that [toxic masculinity] is very different from male energy,” she reflects.  “Male energy is beautiful.  [It’s] welcome.  [It’s] necessary.  [It’s] half the reason that we’re here.  That said, there has been a perversion of this male energy into this macho ideal and I don’t think it serves anybody… I don’t think it serves love… In terms of this movie, what I think our director was saying was that he thinks this energy has no place in our world anymore.”

Taking on the villainous role of Oscar in Colossal is Jason Sudeikis, an actor known primarily for his comedic abilities.  While some might find it less than positive to be viewed as a villain, Sudeikis was excited to take on the challenge.

“I was flattered to be seen that way, which is a weird thing to say.  For me, I can view him now as a bad guy but there you have to feel this sort of empathy for this person.  He breaks my heart a little because he just doesn’t love himself.  He has so much self-hate that it’s spilling over.  So many grudges kept and holding on to so many things.”

Despite his obvious flaws, however, Sudeikis also believes that there’s more to Oscar than simply being labelled a ‘bad guy’.

“I’m not sure he is [a bad guy],” he argues.  “What makes that eight-year old boy do that thing?  What makes him feel so badly about himself?  What drove him to such self-loathing?  We don’t have the option of throwing each other away… We have to find a way to reach into people and not label them ‘good’ or ‘bad’ but just say ‘are you hurting?’ and ‘do you want to heal?’…  Let’s celebrate the grays.”

Of course, given that so much of Colossal focuses on the emotional journey of its female protagonist, it also seeks to set an example for other films to follow. Hence, Hathaway believes that the responsibility to show the strength and courage of women lies in providing alternatives to what could be, as opposed to the way things already are.

“What you want to do is create examples that people can site as to why the old model of thinking is old.  You want try to create examples that people can site so that they can take risks.  It can’t just be the filmmakers.  The media has to help out…”

“I think everybody is poised and primed for change.  And I think we just have to be kind right now because change isn’t perfect.  And there’s going to be disappointments and I think we just need to be patient.”

 

Colossal is in theatres now.

To hear our entire roundtable interview with Anne Hathaway and Jason Sudeikis, you can download it from iTunes or stream it here.

To read our review of Colossal from TIFF16, click here.

To read our exclusive interview with director Nacho Vigalondo, click here.

 

3.11 Discovering the HIDDEN FIGURES

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This week on the show, Chris Utley joins Steve to talk diversity in the Oscars and their response to last years #OscarsSoWhite controversy!  Plus, they also look at the Oscar-nominated film, HIDDEN FIGURES and the cultural impact of breaking barriers of  race and gender!

Want to continue to conversation at home?  Click the link below to download ‘Fishing for More’ — some small group questions for you to bring to those in your area.

3.11 Hidden Figures

Thanks to Chris Utley for being on the show this week!