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Play It Again: 1on1 with Cody Fenwick and Joel Lightman (Canadian Dueling Pianos)

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It goes without saying that we all miss being around one another.

Whether it’s enjoying live entertainment or simply going to a bar with friends, one of the most detrimental effects of the pandemic has been the way it has stripped us of our ability to come together. As a result, during the incredible challenges set before them, many live performers have (understandably) opted to slow down and wait for the pandemic to subside. However, even with overwhelming odds, there are those who were able to pivot successfully.

One particular team who managed to adapt to the online world are dueling pianists Cody Fenwick and Joel Lightman. As the voices behind the Great Canadian Dueling Pianos, Fenwick and Lightman have managed to turn their in-person performances into a bi-weekly online show. Backed by a supportive community, the two men have continued to build relationships with their followers and bring the gift of live music into people’s homes. Looking back at how this journey first began, Fenwick recalls a visit to a raucous piano bar.

“The first time I saw dueling pianos”, Fenwick begins, “I couldn’t get in to the venue because it was so rammed full of people. There was a line up and I said, ‘Man, there’s something going on here.’ This was about 10 years back. With ten years of doing this under my belt now,  I know it’s the interaction between the pianists and the crowd and the fact that we’re doing nothing but requests that draws people.”

“We realized that we could take this to corporate and party audiences all over Canada, because there aren’t really any other companies here that do it,” says Lightman. “So, we started Great Canadian Dueling Pianos. Within eight months, we were flying all over the country. Within a year, we’d started our own dueling pianos club in downtown Toronto. It was a bit of a whirlwind and then, of course, the last year has been even more of a whirlwind.”

With the move to virtual performances, the most difficult challenge has been maintaining their connection with a live audience. Even so, the two men have done everything they could to make the best of the situation.“I suppose when you’re doing stuff like Guns ‘N’ Roses, we often rely on the fact that we expend so much energy playing these songs,” Lightman says. “They’re so rocking that, when people are in the room, they can feed off that. Doing that to an empty room with just Cody and I in it is different. There’s always that element of sterility when you watch something on a stream. I think we’ve definitely worked very hard to try and transcend that.”

“We really had to say ‘How do we do the same show with the same energy when it’s just us two?’ There’s always a synergy between performer and participant, right? They give us the energy and then we return that energy and we all play off one another. Then, when you take the audience away and just put us in a room with a bunch of cameras, we had to learn how to pretend that the audience was there. It’s very easy just to sit there and play – almost like piano practice. That’s the biggest mistake I’ve seen in other people’s streams – not treating it with the same enthusiasm as you would a real live show. We’ve definitely gotten better at it over time!”

“When this whole thing started at the end of March,” Fenwick says, “we started streaming as an experiment. We had no concept as to whether or not it would actually work. We also didn’t know how long the pandemic was going to last.”

“We did the first show and partnered with the Daily Bread Food Bank.” Lightman says. “we made a fairly astonishing amount of money, and we thought, ‘If we can keep this going, this is a way of surviving. And we’ve actually thrived. I believe that consistency was key to our success. The fact that we do this every Wednesday and Saturday has built a community of people who expect us to be there and are excited to come and share music with us. The most important thing that we’ve done is build a community.”

“We’re also doing corporate shows.” Fenwick says. “We have a wonderful client base and before this all started, we had a full calendar. Everything initially just disappeared when COVID began, but the ability for us to actually keep playing these events by appearing virtually is priceless.”With each online performance, Fenwick and Lightman continue to build the dedication of their audience.

Due to the flexibility of the online world, they have found that their following are willing to bring the two pianists wherever they go, including on vacations.

“It’s pretty amazing. We definitely have a core of about a hundred people who will come at least once a week,” says Lightman. “We’ve thrown some of our profits back into advertising and making sure that new eyes see the shows. But there’s definitely a core of people who like the concept, love coming and listening no matter where they are. We’ve had people who’ve taken us camping with them and people listening in their hot tubs. We’ve had people send us pictures of themselves, sat on the dock of their cottage, listening to the music. It’s amazing how far our reach has jumped.”

“We accepted an invitation to go and play a block party right in the middle of COVID last summer,” Fenwick says. “We packed the pianos up, went out there and they had invited the entire block. So, we played the cul-de-sac with each household out on their porches. The organisers invited us back, and we decided that once we’d made $2,000 for the food bank, we’d return and do a show in full drag, which was a first for me. Every opportunity that we’ve had to play, we’ve tried to capitalize on and do it safely and responsibly.”

At first, it may seem odd that there would be such demand for live piano music at a time like this. However, there remains something universally profound about the nature of music. Asked what it is that they believe affects their audience so deeply, Lightman argues that it’s the incredible human connection that they maintain with their viewers that keeps bringing people back.

“I’d like to think that we’re very honest about what we do,” he explains. “So if you ask me for a song that I may have heard 20 years ago, then I will happily give that a go for you, but it’s not going to be the most rehearsed thing in the world. There is definitely something very human about us saying that we will rise to any challenge you throw at us. You see a band and they’re absolutely perfect. That’s awesome. I play with a bunch of bands like that, but that is not dueling pianos. You’re not coming to see a choreographed performance. You’re coming to see two people who are very talented try and do anything that you could ask of them. I think that’s what really resonated with people. It’s very human because there have definitely been songs that I have started and, within a minute, have certainly regretted.”

“We both have. It’s just one of those high wire acts. That’s part of the human connection that you’re talking about,” Fenwick says. “People like to see that. All musicians know the benefit of music in people’s lives, especially when things get really difficult. It’s a mental health issue. But I think it takes some people by surprise how important live music actually is to them – because they’ve never had to be without it before. It’s a great testament to the human spirit and it was quite a surprise to both of us.”

Of course, despite the fact that the show focuses on requests from its audience, both men have their favourite songs that they love to play as well.

“One of the crowd pleasers that I really like is Bohemian Rhapsody,” says Fenwick. “That really works well because people love to sing along and are often surprised that two people can create the necessary wall of sound to pull it off. Of course, we also have the ubiquitous requests. The tunes you know are going to be requested night after night. But I love playing longer tunes that have a more pianistic approach to them. That gives us a chance to stretch out and gives us fresh opportunities to get the audience involved.”

“I’m a child of the 90s so I grew up listening to rock music,” Lightman says. “If someone asks me for Sweet Child O’ Mine, Nirvana, Sublime or any of that stuff from like mid-90s, that stuff makes me incredibly happy. I like nothing more than stepping behind my instrument and screaming my head off. It’s very cathartic. Actually, I think it has kept my mental health on a good path during COVID. Just being able to go and release all that stress by singing my socks off and playing the piano like a monster. I want to expend as much energy as possible behind the piano so that when we finish the gig, I can go home and like fall straight to sleep.”

As vaccinations begin to take hold and venues begin to open up, the obvious question remains whether or not they will continue to offer online performances. Although they can’t wait to get in front of an audience again, they have also discovered the importance of maintaining these online relationships.

“We actually have corporate work scheduled all the way through the end of October for streaming events so I don’t think it’s going away. So many people have gotten used to the fact that now there should be entertainment at the tip of your fingers. I’ve seen other piano acts in the States who are still streaming their in-person shows now that they can do them again. I just don’t think we’d stop. It’s such a useful extra revenue stream. The fact that there are people in senior’s homes, hospitals and other places who can’t get out to enjoy shows anymore, and that we’re able to entertain them and provide them a lifeline is fantastic.”

If you’d like to hear Lightman and Fenwick perform, you can hear their live broadcast every Wednesday at 7:30 and every Saturday at 8:00pm on Facebook Live. You can find the link here.

Inspiration and Success: 1on1 with Dennis Quaid (BLUE MIRACLE)

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Dennis Quaid knows what makes a great story.

With films ranging from the dramatic (Far From Home, Traffic) to the lighthearted and fun (Innerspace, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra) and a career that spans over five decades, Quaid’s repertoire has always been diverse. However, more recently, he has been drawn to more inspirational stories. For Quaid, these types of films not only tell great stories but he also hopes that they will encourage people at a time when things are darkest.

“[Inspirational films] make great stories,” he contends. “There’s enough sad stories to go around this world, just turn on the news. People go to the movies to feel things. They go there to forget about the bad stuff that’s in their lives and their worlds and imagine kind of a pure world. but they go there to feel things and to relate a human experience. [These inspirational stories are] the best of a human experience. Hope.” 

With his latest project, Netflix’s Blue Miracle, Quaid returns to this style of inspirational filmmaking. Filled with drama and an inspirational message, Quaid was drawn to the film because of the experience that he had when he first read the script. 

Blue Miracle. Dennis Quaid as Captain Wade Malloy, Jimmy Gonzales as Omar in Blue Miracle. Cr. Carlos Rodriguez/NETFLIX © 2020

“Well, it was the story itself,” he begins. “When I read a script, it’s the only time that I have a first-time experience of the movie like an audience member. And that’s what I judge it on. Is this a movie that I would like to see and experience? And, that was a no brainer with us because it’s such an incredible story.”

Directed by Julio Quintana, Blue Miracle tells the amazing true story of Casa Hogar, a Mexican orphanage that works with young boys on the street. With bills piling up and creditors demanding payment, Casa Hogar’s director Oman (Jimmy Gonzalez) desperately searches for answers to their financial problems. In a last ditch effort, they reluctantly team with a burnt-out deep sea fisherman Wade Malloy (Quaid) in the famed Bisbee’s Black & Blue fishing tournament in an effort to bring home the big financial prize. 

Since Blue Miracle is a true story, it provided Quaid the opportunity to give voice to an actual person onscreen. After speaking with the real Malloy and those that knew him, he believes that the man was deeply affected by the experience.

“There is a real guy,” Quaid recalls. “I did meet him at the time but I felt like I didn’t have to. For one thing, we didn’t shoot in Cabo. We shot in the Dominican Republic because they had a tank there. I talked to a lot of people who knew him and his relationship to the orphanage and all that. It was very murky, especially at the beginning of his motivations and everything that evolved over the time that they spent together. I think the orphans learned a lot of things from him and him from the orphans. I think he gained humility in doing this accomplishment that was impossible.” 

Blue Miracle. Pablo Rodriguez as Young Omar in Blue Miracle. Cr. Carlos Rodriguez/NETFLIX © 2020

Having made such films as The Rookie, Soul Surfer and the upcoming American Underdog, Miracle is another example of a great sports film in Quaid’s repertoire. When he considers what it is about the world of sports that provides such great drama, Quaid states that there is an inherent struggle to sports that’s worth exploring.

“Drama is an inherent part of sports, especially in a live situation because you don’t know the outcome of everything,” he points out. “There’s a struggle. Sport is always a constant struggle. The same people don’t win each week and you really have to put a lot into it to achieve. It’s always open to an injury and it’s over (or, at least, set back). So, there’s a lot of great stories in sport: comebacks, achievements, overcoming adversity.”

As Malloy, Quaid plays a character that is at first obsessed with winning the tournament and reclaiming his former glory. However, as the film progresses, Malloy also has the opportunity to grow as well.

“Winning is the thing that means the most to him,” reflects Quaid. “I think his values are misplaced at the beginning of the film because he won the first time. He won this tournament legitimately and he cheated on the second time. I think his values are misplaced and with this relationship that he has with the kids, he changes. I think he learned a couple of things.” 

Blue Miracle. Anthony Gonzalez as Geco, Dennis Quaid as Captain Wade Malloy, Miguel Angel Garcia as Moco, Jimmy Gonzales as Omar in Blue Miracle. Cr. Carlos Rodriguez/NETFLIX © 2020

With this in mind, when asked what he believes it means to be truly great, he also argues that real success stems from one’s desire to do something without the adulation.

Says Quaid, “Greatness? I would say, ‘what makes somebody a success?’. That’s when somebody does something they really enjoy. While they’re doing it, it’s not about the adulation. It’s not about the awards. It’s not really even about the money. It’s about how much they enjoy doing it and what they get out of it. That’s the purity and you can only feel that when you’re actually doing it.”

Though the film has an inspirational bent, Quaid ultimately hopes that Blue Miracle simply entertains the viewer and gives them an emotional boost.

“I hope [viewers] are entertained,” he answers. The message itself, it’ll show itself, but it’s a piece of entertainment as well as a true story. I just want people to enjoy themselves for a few hours.”

Blue Miracle is available on Netflix now.

To see our conversation with Dennis Quaid, click here.

Digital Immortality: 1on1 with Mads Hedegaard (CANNON ARM AND THE ARCADE QUEST)

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What does it mean to leave mark on the world?

While some argue that only the bravest or boldest are the ones who are change the landscape of their world, there are some who do so in small ways. These humble heroes will be remembered after their passing, not because of their amazing feats, but because of the strength of their character and how they loved others. In his new documentary Cannon Arm and the Arcade Quest, director Mads Hedegaard explores the power of legacy and, more importantly, the impact one man can have on those around him.

In Arcade Quest, Hedegaard follows grandfather and veteran retro gamer, Kim Cannon Arm. The ‘uncrowned king of 1980s arcade games’, Kim spends his downtime playing the classics with his friends in Copenhagen’s Bip Bip Bar. Having turned the game of Gyruss into an artform, Kim decides to attempt to shatter the world record for gaming by playing for 100 hours straight. Aided by his friends who have committed to see his dream become reality, Kim sets out on a quest to play his way into the history books with the ultimate high score. Asked what it was that drew him to Kim and his story, Hedegaard notes that he was immediately struck by the unique nature of Kim’s quest and the welcoming atmosphere created his friends.

“When I was at film school, I got a friend who worked as a technician [there] and he was the co-owner of the [Bip Bip Bar] arcade. So, he invited me down there,” Hedegaard begins. “When I stepped in the door, it [thought] this is amazing. The music, the sound from the machines, the games themselves and the colors. My friend introduced me to Kim and some of the other guys, and they just welcomed me with open arms. They were just so generous from the get-go, really. Then, they taught me about this record attempt that Kim really wanted to try to make and I thought that the combination of these things [would be great]. The very simple premise of a man who has a goal, [and the question of] does he reach it or not? I really liked that and I liked the man himself, his friends and then the whole atmosphere. It felt to me as if I was stepping into another world, another universe in a way. I thought the combination of those things could potentially make a great basis for film. So, I just decided to try it out.” 

In Kim, Hedegaard knew instantly that he had someone special. Despite Kim’s desire to cement his achievements with a world record, Hedegaard was struck by his modesty and peaceful demeanour.

“I think that what I admire most now is [Kim’s] humbleness and his just very quiet nature,” he points out. “He is so incredibly good at what he does in the arcade, but he’s so humble and he’s so chill about it. And I really liked that. I think what is one of the things that drew me to him in the beginning was also that he was such an introvert and doesn’t speak much. He’s such a quiet guy. I really recognize that in myself because I really used to be a very, very, very quiet guy and very shy and very introverted. So, that struck a chord with me somehow and I was just intrigued by that. 

“When I see [what happens at the end of the film], even now I’m surprised as [his response]. When I was there, when it happened and I was filming it, I was just blown away. This is almost not human too, but it’s so human. It’s so pure in a way. He’s just a very pure human, in my opinion.”

Though the world of gaming continues to evolve, Hedegaard believes that there is a simplicity about the old arcade games that Kim finds appealing. 

“I know for Kim, that’s one of the things he really appreciates with these old games,” Hedegaard explains. “He appreciates the simplicity and that it’s really difficult. He mentioned to me the other day, [that] the modern games [are] not really difficult. They’re just fancy looking, but they’re not difficult. You can play them for hours without having played it before. These arcade games, you really have to know the game and get a feeling of them. Obviously, it’s like that for many modern games games as well. I’m not saying that, but I think that’s Kim’s take on it. He really appreciates that the simplicity of the game, the graphics and the gameplay. It’s not really showing off like many modern games are.”

While he was thrilled to be in the middle of a potentially momentous occasion, Hedegaard notes that the night itself wasn’t exactly always edge-of-your-seat excitement. In fact, due to the repetitiveness of the activity, he notes that the night was much quieter than he’s expected.

“It was extremely boring. [laughs] But at the same time, it was also obviously very exciting,” he remembers. “It [went] on for so many hours. I’m there with the camera. Luckily, I had my photographer for that as well so we could take turns getting a few hours of sleep. It was at times extremely boring but, at other times, extremely exciting. You could almost feel the tension in the air. It went on for so many, many hours, so that was also just people hanging out and just having a good time, drinking some beers and stuff like that. The atmosphere was so different. Most of all, it was friends who were there and, by that time, they’d become my friends. So, it was just also a very, very friendly atmosphere and just people hanging out people who really liked each other, and then [there’s] this massive thing going on at the same time. It was very weird in very many ways.” 

Of course, to break a world record is not something that can be done by one’s self. Although Kim’s achievement seems like a solely individual activity, the truth is that none of this would have been possible without the support of his friends. In Arcade Quest, Hedegaard makes sure to highlight the important role that Kim’s friends play in his life and the supportive community that they have created together.

“I think [that community] means everything, to be honest,” Hedegaard responds. “The characters in this film, I think have found this community. Maybe because they lacked a community before they found this, and I think they really appreciate and enjoy that they can be themselves with their friends. They don’t have to pretend to be a certain way. They’re so different and they allow themselves and each other to be different and as they are. They respect each other the way they are… I think it’s a huge thing for anyone basically. I know for myself, it’s important for me to feel part of a community and I don’t play football or soccer or any sports for that matter. I think it’s the same being in a sports club or… whatever you do in your spare time or at work that’s so important to us. I think the whole COVID thing the last year has proven that to a great extent that we really, really need to be among other people and especially among other people that accept us for who we are.” 

Though he doesn’t consider himself a ‘gamer’, Hedegaard does believe that the world of video games creates its own bond between its players. In fact, he argues that the desire for community lives on amongst all generations, regardless of whether or not they play online or physically in the same room.

“I’m not a gamer myself. Now, I’m part of the gaming community, but… to me it’s more important to hang out with my friends [at the arcade] and stuff like that,” Hedegaard says. “My impression is that, within the last five or 10 years, the arcades have gotten a second round in a way. I know at least in Copenhagen that the arcade where this film takes place has grown… So, it is getting more popular, obviously it’s not as near as popular as it was back in the eighties.” 

“But talking about the community,” he continues, “what I think draws people to the arcade now [is] hanging out and it’s not just gamers. For lack of a better word, it’s ‘regular people’ coming there, having a drink, [and] going on a date. I think that’s partly because of the good atmosphere but also because there is a sense of community there. Talking about modern gaming, my impression at least is that that’s what people also find on the internet when they play games. It’s also a community. They make friends online. So, it might not be in the physical space, but the community is just as strong is my impression.”

One of the more unique conversations Hedegaard tackles within Arcade Quest is the question of what makes a hero. Though many assume that heroes are those that must have grand achievements on their resume, he believes that the true power stems from their character.

“Well, what defines a hero?” he asks. “I think, to me at least, the definition of a hero is not being immortal as it is in many superhero movies today and stuff like that. I find that a bit boring, to be honest. Kim is such a good player, but he’s so humble at the same time. I think in some weird way… the combination of being so good—maybe the best in the world at something—and then being extremely humble at the same time. I think that clash is what constitutes a hero, and then it can take all sorts of forms and shapes. In this case, it’s a 55-year-old guy playing an arcade game, but it could be anyone anywhere.“

“I think we all have the potential to be heroes if we decide to make the choice, but also sometimes not to make the choice. I think Kim has decided not to make a choice. He doesn’t do it on purpose. It’s not something he’s planned out and he’s set a strategy and I’m going to be this way. It’s just how he is. I think the pureness of that really interests me. I think that’s partly where some of the things I’m talking about in the film about what constitutes a hero is that it’s being a person, not something that’s not human.” 

By extension, Hedegaard also believes that leaving your mark on the world doesn’t necessarily mean that you have changed the world. To him, the most important legacy we leave stems from the impressions that we leave on others.

“We were talking about making an impression on the world before and that comes in many forms and shapes,” Hedegaard argues. “[You could] set a world record of whatever, build a fancy company or go to the moon or something like that. But I think the truest sense of the whole thing is if you’ve made an impression in another being a human being. I think that that’s the most important [thing] for everyone. [Making] an emotional impression in another human being. When you’re gone, if someone else misses you, that’s basically enough. You don’t have to be Elon Musk. Someone that leaves a mark on another person is really what it’s all about.” 

Cannon Arm and the Arcade Quest premiered at HotDocs ‘21

To hear our conversation with director Mads Hedegaard, click here.

1on1 – Talking about our divisions with The Reunited States folks.

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I recently had the opportunity to talk via Zoom with The Reunited States director Ben Rekhi,  and two of the film’s subjects, David and Erin Leaverton, who took a year to travel the US and talk with people about our divisions. For more on the film, see the Screenfish review or visit the film’s website to view the trailer. The film is now available an VOD.

Ben, where did you start in putting this film together and gathering the people for the different perspectives you wanted to get?

Ben Rekhi: I started this film about two and a half years ago, when I saw Susan Bro giving a talk. I was really struck by the fact that she was on the front lines of division and had lost a child to the violence, but she was able to come out the other side and talk about the need for conversation to avoid further violence. It really struck me that this was someone who had a voice of reason in a time when everyone was shouting at each other. She also had the moral authority to do that because she had suffered so publicly this loss. So, I approached her and I said “I don’t know how or when, but I want to be a part of helping to tell your story, because I think it can really help other people at this time. There’s a lot of uncertainty about what’s happening in politics and you have this clarity to articulate it from the heart.” She, after a few conversations, allowed me to follow her with the camera and start filming. That was the beginning of the film.

The second piece of that was meeting Mark Gerzon, the author of the book The Reunited States of America. I’d come up with the title thinking it was pretty original, but when I Googled it I realized someone already had that title and written a book about it, but it was also on the same topic. Mark had been studying polarization for thirty years and had this wisdom that was relevant for those of us who only woke up to it over the last several years. I met him and he introduced me to the other three storylines. I said I want to follow someone on election day in the midterms, and he said Greg Orman. I wanted to understand what young people can do about division, he told me about Steven Olikara. He called me out of the blue one day and said, “In all my years of doing this work, I’ve never come across anything as extraordinary as this family, the Leavertons, that are in an RV right now crisscrossing the country trying to find out what’s dividing us.” So I called them and as soon as I heard them speak, I was struck by their wisdom and clarity about what they had discovered. And especially being from a more conservative background and being willing to travel outside of their bubble and outside their comfort zone, in black community, in native reservations, in border towns. It really captured the human side of division because of these face-to-face encounters. To hear them really let people’s stories in and have a heart connection, it’s really emotional. It’s not easy. You’re hearing some tragic stories, that helps transform how you see. Not just as individuals but entire communities of people.

The film wants to show optimism about the possibility of overcoming the divisions the country is facing. How did that optimism hold up for each of you as the Jan 6 assault on the Capitol took place?

Erin Leaverton: That was a hard day. I think for anybody who desires to see our country divided, even if it didn’t diminish your optimism, it’s grieving to see these things with your eyes and to behold what we’re willing to do to one another.

David Leaverton: For me it was a very predictable outcome of the path we’ve been on for a long time. This is a path that’s pretty natural when you begin to dehumanize, when you begin to otherize, us versus them, good versus evil. These are some of the natural things that are going to happen. It didn’t diminish my hope in our future from the stand point of “is all hope lost because people stormed the capital?” No, but I believe it shows me the importance of the work of peacemaking, of bridge building, because people’s lives are being lost in this struggle.

BR: I was pretty surprised and shocked. I think that people expected violence to breakout around the election and when the results came—at voting stations, maybe in the streets. So there was kind of a collective sigh of relief when that didn’t happen. Like “Oh my God, our democratic institutional held up. People didn’t result to violence.” So when it happened at the beginning of the year, especially on the steps of the Capitol, attempting to kill Congressmen, I never would have seen that coming. It was a turning point that has made things harder in this field because, even for myself, I’ve been really trying to build bridges and this is going to make it harder, but have I also been missing blind spots about how deep this goes? So it’s forced me to do a lot of self-reflection. The distinction that has been helpful for me is that this was a small group of people—not small but several thousand, compared to several tens of millions—that would condone this, while most people would not. That distinction is important, but it’s harder to make that distinction for a lot of people. Right now, it’s kind of been a point of no return for a lot of people that you cannot get along with the lies. You’re an idiot if you think you can. In that regard we are in uncharted territory. But personally, it has not shaken my optimism this as we move forward. It shows the depth and the long game that it’s going to take to do that.

On a more positive side, did you see the Jeep commercial with Bruce Springsteen in the Superbowl?

BR:  What a coincidence! What luck! It’s the right place, right time. You can’t buy that kind of messaging.

DL: I can’t believe they used the words “The ReUnited States of America”. Of all the things that they could have put on there. It’s just wild. Who doesn’t like Bruce Springsteen? That’s pretty awesome. It was a great commercial. What I felt was that there’s a market for healing. There is a market for…

EL:  … common ground, finding a place where you can meet.

DL: That was encouraging to me that this isn’t kind of a splinter group of us weirdos talking about this stuff. These are kind of major iconic American brands that see the importance of this conversation.

David and Erin, a good part of the film is your journey, not just physically, but ideologically. How would you characterize that personal journey?

DL: I was blind, but now I see.

EL: I would say I was blind, but now I am starting to see.

DL: That’s probably more accurate.

EL: And that doesn’t mean I was a Republican and now I’m almost a Democrat. There seems to be a lot of confusion around like a political conversion taking place by leaving your bubble and traveling all fifty states. We abandoned our identities as Republicans because we found out that no one can be summed up in a political ideology. Humans are too beautiful and too complex and too infinitely valuable to be summed up in such overly simplistic term. So that’s what we mean by we’re no longer Republicans, is that we now are beginning to see we’ve come into a deeper understanding of the beauty of our fellow human beings.

How much resistance did you run into trying to find people to talk together?

DL: About the only resistance we really found was from our fellow conservatives. That was really surprising to us. We rarely found, I think I can count them on one hand, resistance from people who were kind of outside of my tribe. When we tried to connect with people of our own tribe, or our former tribe, whatever you want to call it, did we find that kind of level of resistance.  I think there something that when you kind of step out against the team, it’s something really sensitive, because so many of us have identified in this country by our political affiliations. And if you come from us and step outside of that, boy, it’s kind of like the unforgiveable sin.

EL: We were upsetting the apple cart of our upbringing, and it made it very hard to stick your toe back in and say, “Can we talk? We have some questions.” We had a lot of resistance there. It was really interesting and surprising at the time.

What do you see as the foundation for the division we face?

DL: That was so much of our focus, I think. We started this journey thinking that the problem in America was that we were politically divided. That was really our hypotheses, that if we can just go to different parts of the country and host a dinner for a few Republicans and a few Democrats we could kind of see each other as human, important, and realize our differences aren’t really that big of a deal, and by the time dessert hit we would kind of heal that divide. What we realized was kind of our political divisions were a symptom of something a whole lot deeper. So for us, along this journey, was constantly asking this question: how did we get this way? Going deeper and deeper. What’s causing this? What’s causing that? And it led us back before the founding of the country. It led us into the understanding of the rise of Christendom and colonization and it got into our story of whose land do we stand upon today and how was that land acquired? I think when you build something on land that was gained often through the shedding of innocent blood, whatever house you build upon that foundation is going to have a tough time making it. So for me, our solution isn’t to fix the brokenness of the last two or three presidencies when we’ve gotten divided, but I really think if we want to heal this land, we need to go into the very foundations of the building blocks of the United States of America and really look at those. “How did we come to be the good, the bad, and the ugly?” through a process of acknowledgement and truth, through a process of justice and conciliation. I think there’s a journey to healing. It’s not an easy and it’s not a short one.

BR: I would echo that, that the foundations of the country were built on genocide of native peoples and slavery. So, there’s kind of a fundamental split between what the ideals of our founding fathers and documents were, and the contradiction of what was actually happening. On the political differences, it seems over the last forty years that we’ve seen a steady rapid polarization increasing. A lot of that has to do with the end of the cold war and the loss of a common enemy that we used to have. This kind of superpower that was our existential threat untied us together, and once we lost that external enemy, we turned to our enemies inside. Then on our same side our policy and democracy reform has been slow to keep up with the changes. So a lot of political leaders are incentivized to move to the extremes to win elections and win primaries. There’s sort of a coupling of all these things that has created the atmosphere that we’re in now. The question is there is emergency crisis management—how do we put out the house that’s on fire?—while we also think of longer-term solutions.

What are the next steps you will be taking personally, or that you hope to see happen in a more general sense?

BR: We’re really hopeful that the film can be a small part of the conversation of turning things around, and saying we all have a role to play in this. We’re all either part of the problem or part of the solution of the problem of division. We think it’s so easy—and I was like this—it’s easy to say those other people on the other side, they’re the ones being unreasonable. But we end up throwing a lot of gas on the fire—in social media, in our friend groups—by not taking any ownership of our own side of the street. The narrative needs to shift to one of what can I be doing differently? How can I heal my personal relationships, my family relationships, people I’ve fallen out of favor with? So there’s this moment now where it feels like there’s a ground swell of awareness after the Capitol attack and with a new administration, like them or not, for a sense of unity, and trying to set that tone in words and in actions, people might debate that. But there’s a realization that this isn’t working. So all the solutions should be on the table because there are a lot of people digging in their heels and saying “until we agree on the facts we can’t move forward”. Or “Until they take the blame, we can’t move forward”. That is going to continue to make it even worse. There’s 300 million people in this country. How do we each take responsibility because as citizens it’s not just the rights that we have, we have responsibilities, because freedom isn’t free. We have to actually take action where we are with what we have right now. That’s something we have a choice over.

EL: I agree. I think we’re at a crossroads in many ways, in which we each individually have a choice to make. That choice, I think, collectively speaking, will determine where we go from here as a nation. There’s so much anger and animosity. I recently heard someone say, “It’s easier to be angry than it is to be hurt.” I think we have to decide to be courageous enough to feel the pain of the moment and engage in that pain in order to move into the actual choice of do we want to be united states? Is that what we want as a nation? We’re at a watershed moment, I think, where we get to decide. I don’t think a President can say we’re united, and poof it magically appears. We all have work to do in our hearts and our minds and with our words. This is like Kindergarten 101. Do you want to be kind? Or do you want to be mean? In some sense we’re actually complicating something that’s actually simple. It’s what do you want? We have to decide that as a nation. It’s not about are we all going to agree on the facts. We’ve never agreed on the facts. That’s never been part of our ethos. Disagreement is kind of woven into the fabric of who we are as a nation. We’ve forgotten how to do that with love and honor. If we don’t find our way back to that place, I think we’re on a very dangerous path moving forward. We all have a decision to make.

The Spirit of the Story: 1on1 with Casey Affleck (OUR FRIEND)

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It’s fair to say that Casey Affleck understands that the soul of a story can say more than the sum of its parts.

Known for strong performances in such films as A Ghost Story, Ain’t Them Bodies Saints and Manchester By The Sea (for which he won Best Actor at the Academy Awards), Affleck frequently adds an emotional depth to his characters that helps their fictional stories feel authentic. However, with his latest film Our Friend, star Affleck had the opportunity to explore the real-life journey of writer Matthew Teague, a man whose life is turned upside-down due to a family tragedy. As thrilled as he was to work with the rest of the team behind the film, he recalls that he was also very excited about the soul of the story itself.

“Two things really appealed to me about this project,” he begins. “One was the people who were involved. I liked Gabriela [Cowperthwaite] as a director. I didn’t know Jason [Segel] or Dakota [Johnson] but I was interested in working with them and it turned out to be great. The other was just the spirit of the story, which has to do with sort of selflessness and being of service to others, showing up for people in our lives, even when it’s hardest. Somebody said that a great friend is somebody who shows up when you need them, even when being there is the last place in a world that they want to be. This is a story about me and Dakota, our family finding ourselves in a crisis and Jason Segal’s character showing up in just that way.”

After his wife, Nicole (Dakota Johnson) has been diagnosed with terminal cancer, Matthew Teague (Casey Affleck) struggles to balance meeting her needs and raising their daughters. Seeking to help, close friend to the family Dane (Jason Segal) offers to move in for a short stay to help Matthew get back on his feet. However, as time marches forward, the lines between friendship and family begin to blur as Dane’s temporary gesture extends into an indefinite living arrangement at great personal cost. 

Though the trio had never worked together before, the chemistry between Affleck, Johnson and Segel is something to behold. In virtually every scene, each of the film’s leads feels emotionally present, creating something truly special onscreen. 

“I had gotten close to working with Jason once on movie but [we] didn’t end up doing it,” Affleck recalls. “I really think he’s a great, great big talent and a sweet guy. Dakota has been sort of on my radar for a while because she’d been just doing really interesting choices that seemed unpredictable. She’ll be in 50 Shades of Gray, Peanut Butter Falcon and Suspiria. She’ll be popping up in places and just seemed like there’s an interesting person there.”

Often times, bringing an actual person to life onscreen can create an added pressure to ensure that you represent their life story and mannerisms authentically. Asked if there’s anything in particular that he wanted people to know about Matthew Teague, Affleck felt that his most important job was not to try to ‘impersonate’ him but instead to honour the power of his story onscreen.

“I don’t really have an agenda about what people know about Matt Teague,” says Affleck. “Matt’s a writer and a nice guy and he brought this story to the public. He wrote an article, brought that article to a screenwriter and he shepherded the whole project all the way through. I was there to just to play a role as an actor. I told Matt on the very first day that I met him that he should not expect to see the movie and feel like he was looking in a mirror or something. It would be different than he remembered. The events in the movie might some way not be exactly like he remembered, but we would all try very hard to make sure that the spirit of the story was communicated. So, I want people not necessarily to know something about Matt, but to know something about what this story says about all of us.” 

Furthermore, in any biographical project, Affleck also understands that the person onscreen is never a full realization of their actual character. 

“In the telling of a story, people are changed,” he explains. “You’re not doing an impersonation. You’re not trying to say this is exactly as someone else is. I believe that the person you see onscreen is a combination of the imagination of the writer, the director, the actor, and the editor, et cetera.” 

In an interesting way, the fact that the film is based on friendship seems almost countercultural. At a time when the term ‘friend’ is most often associated with Facebook connections, Our Friend highlights the meaning of the word in all its fullness. Even so, instead of changing his views on the expression, Affleck’s experience on the film has reinforced what he already believed a friend should be.

“I don’t think that it has new meaning for me,” he explains. “I think that being a part of this movie was a way to contribute to something that expressed what I already felt about friendship. So, it’s more that I got to bring something that I was already sort of carrying to the movie and share that. I think it’s a funny sounding word ‘friend’ but it’s such a beautiful idea. I’d love to have a longer conversation about how and why human beings form relationships and what purpose they serve and how we can serve that purpose. That’s interesting to me and I really do feel like I love the spirit of what this movie is, especially around that topic.” 

Having become increasingly selective in his projects over the course of his career, Affleck found a healthy spirit within this story that was hard to resist. With its emphasis on healing after suffering, he feels that Our Friend is particularly special in the way that it offers a sense of hope to the audience.

“I used to think that, after [working on] a movie, I would walk away and just leave it behind completely,” Affleck points out. “Sometimes it feels like that, but I think that when you put a lot of yourself into a movie, sometimes the movie puts a lot back in you. For that reason, I’ve become a lot more careful about the kinds of projects that I choose to be a part of. When I was younger, almost out of necessity, I just took whatever. Whoever would hire me, I would take that job because that’s how I made a living. It is still how I make my living and I have to work, but I try to be as careful as I can about the spirit of the movie and the spirit of the part. Something like this, I feel like I can live with. I liked the message of this. Even though that the movie is will break your heart, it will also it’ll repair your heart too and sort of fill you back up. I think then when people watch the movie, that’s the experience that they have. They leave feeling sort of emptied and refilled and I’m okay with that.” 

Our Friend is available on VOD on Friday, January 22, 2021.

To hear our conversation with Casey Affleck, click here.